The following is a transcript of an interview with Sen. Chris Coons, Democrat of Delaware, that aired on "Face the Nation" on July 9, 2023.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
We turn now to Delaware Democratic Senator Chris Coons. Good morning, good to have you here.
SENATOR CHRIS COONS:
Good morning. Great to be on set with you Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
A lot to talk about, but I want to start with China. America is reliant on its greatest adversary for key things. For missiles, for computer chips, electric vehicles. Do we need a domestic industrial policy? Why don't we have one?
COONS:
We do have one. Margaret, that's what the Chips and Science bill that President Biden signed into law last year that the Congress moved forward on a bipartisan basis has delivered: tens of billions of dollars of new investments in onshoring, semiconductor chip manufacturing; a record number of new advanced manufacturing sites in the United States. There is more work for us to do on this in this Congress. And Senator Schumer and Republicans in the Senate are leading work on that. So we have turned a corner on having an industrial policy in the United States. That brings back manufacturing. That's the core of Bidenomics, of rebuilding our economy from the middle out.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
But what we were just talking about the Treasury secretary is August 1st, China's going to stop the export of key minerals. So to make those chips you need what China had--.
COONS:
--That's right.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
So where do you get that from?
COONS:
So China is in a commanding position on the processing of strategic critical minerals. The administration has a plan has a- has a pro- has a program underway with a dozen countries around the world that are our allies and partners, who have untapped resources. I was just on a bipartisan trip to Europe. We visited Norway, which has critical minerals in abundance, several of them that we need, that China currently has, there is a plan and a path forward. And as long as we sustain our bipartisan support for it, I think there is a clear path to transition away from what is currently a dangerous dependency on China for these strategic minerals.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
I'm going to ask you about Europe. President Biden is leaving today on this trip that will involve a stop at NATO. I know that you have signed on to efforts to help Sweden get into NATO, but Turkey is standing in the way. You've said you're fine with withholding F-16s. Those kinds of military equipment- provisions to Turkey until they back down. Are they going to?
COONS:
We'll have to see. President Biden is directly, personally engaged in this diplomacy. The Greeks need and deserve security reassurances that the lessening of tensions with Turkey will continue. We are continuing to provide cutting-edge equipment like the F-35 to our critical NATO partner Greece. As long as Greece is reassured, Sweden has taken the steps they should to address Turkey's legitimate concerns. I remain hopeful that there will be a resolution of this before the Vilnius Summit. We have 31 members of NATO today, there should be 32. Adding Finland and Sweden to NATO is a strategic defeat for Putin. It means that no matter the outcome on the ground in Ukraine, he has failed in his objective to divide and weaken NATO, because of President Biden's leadership. NATO is the strongest it's ever been.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
You have another applicant: Ukraine. As you know, the President gave an interview in which he said he doesn't think Ukraine is ready to join NATO. Have you talked to him about it? And what specifically is it that he needs to see for them to be allowed in? They've been waiting since 2008.
COONS:
Well, first, we can't admit Ukraine to NATO right now. There's a war going on that has to be resolved. That has to end with Ukrainian victory. I was just on a bipartisan trip, as I mentioned, with Senator Murray, Chair of Appropriations, to meet with EU leaders and NATO leaders. It's important to keep in mind that what the Ukrainians are fighting for is full membership in Europe, and they are on track to join the EU. Joining the EU also means improving their transparency, their rule of law, their civil society, which lays the foundation for NATO membership in the future.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
Wha- President Zelensky has said he knows it's in the future, it's not drawing the United States into a war. In other words, if he were to get in this week, which the White House said he won't. But, the President also said something about an Israel-style assurance of defense for Ukraine. That sounds very open ended, we give billions of dollars to Israel. What does that mean for Ukraine?
COONS:
Oh, there has to be a security guarantee for Ukraine going forward. For them to- for them to be conceivably admissible to NATO, their equipment, their training, their-their military has to be up to NATO standards, and we are moving them in that direction. But I'll remind you back in 1994, in Budapest, the U.S., U.K., and Russia persuaded Ukraine to give up their nuclear weapons in exchange for a commitment to a territorial security guarantee. Some sort of security guarantee for Ukraine has to be on the far side of this war, where so many Ukrainians are fighting and dying bravely to push back out the Russian aggressors who are occupying 20% of Ukraine today.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
But you don't expect any firm assurances out of this week's summit? No timeline, no specifics?
COONS:
That's a decision for 31 NATO members to make. My hunch is they'll make real progress on Sweden accession. They'll make real progress on sustaining our critical support in the middle of this counteroffensive, but I don't think they'll leave Vilnius with a specific timeline.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
President Biden said that Ukraine's military is running out of ammunition and that was a factor in his decision to greenlight providing cluster munitions. Do you think that morally justified his decision to do this?
COONS:
I do. This was a very hard decision. The President really- he listened to all sides.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
Did you speak to him about it?
COONS:
I did not speak directly to him about this decision. I weighed in indirectly through folks in his core team. But bluntly, he looked at several different core factors. First, we are running out of 155mm artillery munitions, and they are burning through them at a remarkable rate. Six to eight thousand a day. That's a million a year. We have a plan to bring back online the manufacturing of 155mm shells at scale, but that won't happen for months. They are at risk of losing this counter offensive if they run out of their shells. We have a large stockpile of 155mm shells that are cluster munitions. It's the Ukrainians who are asking to be able to use these on their own soil. They've committed to monitoring their use to remediating them after the war. And frankly, they will be tactically helpful against dug-in Russian troops that are behind large minefields. So weighing all of those factors, the President made a tough call that I will support.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
You will support. I want to ask you as well about Iran. The President's envoy to Iran, his name is Rob Malley. And he told CBS that he is on leave right now pending a review of his security clearance. He's so central to the nuclear talks, and also the point of contact for the hostage families. Have you been briefed on what's happening?
COONS:
I have not. On- on his security situation I have not.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
Because on- in your key role on Senate Foreign Relations, I would imagine there is some oversight. There is some reporting that the FBI is now involved. Are- are you concerned? How should people understand this?
COONS:
Look, I can't share anything about the FBI and what they are or are not doing with regards to the special envoy. But there is a lot of concern and interest in Congress on that committee and others about the status of any potential negotiation with Iran. The Iranians are providing the Russians critical drones and munitions for their aggression in Ukraine. I think that puts even greater tension on any possible conversations between the United States, our regional allies, and Iran. And I do think we need a briefing to update the members of Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
On- on this matter, as well as the talks. Do you think that the President should meet with the families of those hostages in Iran? They have been asking for some time.
COONS:
Look, you know, I'm an advocate for the hostages, broadly speaking. Jason Rezaian, who was held in an Iranian prison for more than 500 days, came home and received an IRS bill in the mail as a result for unpaid taxes. I just introduced a bipartisan bill to get rid of those undue, unexpected, unreasonable harms. Yes, I think the president should meet with hostage families. He has a lot on his plate. He has been a strong advocate for recovering Americans from overseas. As you know, his administration led the return of Brittney Griner. I am hoping that there will also be some movement in the case of a Wall Street Journal reporter who is unjustly imprisoned in Russia as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
Evan Gershkovich.
COONS:
Evan Gershkovich.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
Do you have reason to believe that that is moving forward?
COONS:
I have reason to believe that the administration is working tirelessly on trying to return all Americans who are unjustly detained.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
Senator, thank you for your time this morning. "Face the Nation" will be back in a minute, so stay with us.